all is quiet

[cha0s#242]

Chairs have been part of our club for many years and I'd rather see fewer "plastic rockets" than no chairs.

Stan

BTW my points about sidecars are all from a financial viewpoint. The only point you made so far is: i dont like plastic bikes.

Not being an Exec anymore dosen't mean you can stop making sense, be it financial or otherwise. All I see here is hate, derogatory nomenclature included. Quite dissapointing, really...

[paul whittaker]

I cannot help note the tone of "if it does not turn a profit it should not exist", this is currently the situation with school libraries, parks, toll roads etc why do I pay almost double at an AHRMA event than at a VRRA meet without complaining, plus there are often camping fees. I accept the fact that we rent the track to enjoy racing on it. so lets just pay the cost.
The awards are fine, when Marie and I pass on ours will likely end in the dustbin in any case, who else would want them, what would they mean to some one else? I Have tried to get a genuine model of a vintage sidecar for several years to make into an award without success, rather not have them made in China.
The Cam/Am were generally held on the better tracks not short bumpy stuff. But it could include Loudon, Mosport, and say Beaver Run, or Gratten, Gingerman. all not too far providing the dates do not clash. That is always a problem. Paul.

[Stan Nicholson]

[.

Not being an Exec anymore dosen't mean you can stop making sense, be it financial or otherwise. All I see here is hate, derogatory nomenclature included. Quite dissapointing, really...

It is OK for Dominic to speculate about eliminating sidecars to make room for P5 but it is not OK for me to disagree? As for the comment about hate, where are you coming from. You joined a club that is dedicated to preserving and racing vintage machines. Where does it say we need to keep moving the date forward for eligible bikes? There are other places to race semi-modern bikes but only one place in Canada to race vintage/classic bikes.

[Malcolm Lake]

You go Stan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It seems as we go forward there was a hidden agenda, but it wasn't the executives'. I'm sad to see it and sad to say whilst Jan and I were hoping to go south at least a couple of times...we may do more of that and less of the VRRA.Which would mean while not giving up on racing with you we would no longer be interested in doing the BM... or AGMs or the like. I'm sure in the big picture we're not important, but it seems there's more to criticize than to do. YOU ALL need to change that!

[racerdude413]

[.

Not being an Exec anymore dosen't mean you can stop making sense, be it financial or otherwise. All I see here is hate, derogatory nomenclature included. Quite dissapointing, really...

It is OK for Dominic to speculate about eliminating sidecars to make room for P5 but it is not OK for me to disagree? As for the comment about hate, where are you coming from. You joined a club that is dedicated to preserving and racing vintage machines. Where does it say we need to keep moving the date forward for eligible bikes? There are other places to race semi-modern bikes but only one place in Canada to race vintage/classic bikes.

And where does it say where "Vintage" starts and ends? I didnt know you had the power to make that decision Stan. But wait , i believe you have the same power as me to make that decision Stan 1/248 th of the power ...

You can disagree all you want, we would just expect you to disagree for another reason then the look of our bikes. Like it or not, P4 race in this club.

And you know what they call letting someone you dont really like have a go just because they give you money?

[racerdude413]

You go Stan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It seems as we go forward there was a hidden agenda, but it wasn't the executives'. I'm sad to see it and sad to say whilst Jan and I were hoping to go south at least a couple of times...we may do more of that and less of the VRRA.Which would mean while not giving up on racing with you we would no longer be interested in doing the BM... or AGMs or the like. I'm sure in the big picture we're not important, but it seems there's more to criticize than to do. YOU ALL need to change that!

So far only 2 people (with 1/124 the power) "sugested" sidecars should be "looked at" , hardly something to get your panty's in a bunch over... dont sell your rig just yet Mal...

[cha0s#242]

[.

Not being an Exec anymore dosen't mean you can stop making sense, be it financial or otherwise. All I see here is hate, derogatory nomenclature included. Quite dissapointing, really...

It is OK for Dominic to speculate about eliminating sidecars to make room for P5 but it is not OK for me to disagree? As for the comment about hate, where are you coming from. You joined a club that is dedicated to preserving and racing vintage machines. Where does it say we need to keep moving the date forward for eligible bikes? There are other places to race semi-modern bikes but only one place in Canada to race vintage/classic bikes.

You are 100% allowed to criticise and to agree or disagree, this is a forum for debate. All I wanted to point out is that some of us have arguments that are based on reason (ie. financial, maximising track time for everyone, planning new and better venues, etc.), as opposed to emotional, non-rational arguments (ie. I don't like your bike, and referring to it as a "plastic rocket").

Stan, here is what says we need to move forward : the decreasing number of entries in P1-P2, the decreasing revenues, the fact that we might not have the money to race at some of the nicer venues like we all want to (as demonstrated by the show of hands at the AGM), amongst others. Oh, and there is the fact that, even if you are personnaly stuck in the sixties (which is fine by me, no offense intended), the rest of the world has evolved and demand the right to be stuck in the nineties, for a change And, guess what ? Someday, when I'm sixty, some thirthysomething punk is going to sign up for this club and will want to register a BMW S1000RR. I, for one will embrace it, with possibly the bittersweet smile I usually have when I notice time passing me by...

To the sidecar guys : I like seeing you guys going around the track (not that it's relevant if I do or not). Like every decision this club has to make, we need to base it on common sense. If we want to go to Tremblant but can't make sense, it won't happen. Same reasoning should apply everywhere, no ? Maybe in the past, we didn't have to make so much financial sense, but in these days of recession, we need to justify and rationalize if we want this Club to survive.

[mike burke]

Hi Paul,

Now that I'm not on the Exec any more I can throw in my opinions just like everyone else
...
Stan

.... You joined a club that is dedicated to preserving and racing vintage machines. Where does it say we need to keep moving the date forward for eligible bikes? There are other places to race semi-modern bikes but only one place in Canada to race vintage/classic bikes.

Glad to see you joining in on the discussions Stan, it really is a shame that you felt you shouldn't have shared your opinions while an Exec, I sure hope we don't have any Current Exec's that feel it inappropriate to let their opinion be known.

Just remember one thing, the only dam reason that there is the "one place in Canada to race vintage/classic bikes" that you refer to is because of the "Semi-modern plastic rockets" that pay the bills so the elite of the club can have a venue to play at. You might also want to be reminded that the Vintage race bikes you refer to are welcomed at the same venues as the "semi-modern" bikes, that being SOAR and RACE. The Club cannot live if restricted to the founders definition of Vintage, there is no winning a debate as to what vintage is but we can define who we are as a club, and like it or not the demographics are similar to 30 years ago and 15-20 year old bikes are what the many members want to ride, they just happen to be 30 years younger.

[hillrest]

Hey Stan, and the rest of the purists in the club! Please don't let the "predictors of the future" deter you. Remember the great words of "Spock" in the TV show that predicted most of our devices we use now, "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few". There seem to be a few here that feel they need something at any cost. But sometimes you just have to shake your head and laugh!!! The debate will continue.........................

[racerdude413]

I think "the few" need "the many" to pay for the track...

[limy_1]

I think "the few" need "the many" to pay for the track...

We all need everybody to pay for the track.
It would be nice to make a buck but as long as at the end of the season we break even or better we are duing good.
It is even nicer that we can piggyback the insurance on RACE rather than a promoter, this helps hold costs down too.
With only having 4 events and Mosport being the "Big One" if there is a problem it is a loosing proposition.

If the VRRA had a couple of more events (no I am not suggesting making the schedule bigger) there would be the opportunity to have a loosing event but by having a couple of "Big" events that could overcome any loses.

The VRRA is the most affordable organization that I have raced with including the annual membership and per race cost plus RACE insurance and supplimental out of country insurance included.

I race with three other organizations and belong to two of them with an annual membership.

[commando]

I found this p1 plastic rockethttp://cgi.ebay.ca/Three-1960s-CAP-ROCKET-Space-Ship-SPACEMAN-Toy-MINT-/280604785938?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item4155593d12
But I also found this onehttp://cgi.ebay.ca/DM-56215-Dragon-Saturn-V-Apollo-13-Rocket-Diecast-Model-/290511454359?pt=Diecast_Vehicles&hash=item43a3d50097 and since it was unchanged from 1970 and on is it p1 eligible even though it has a manufacture date of 2010?

[limy_1]

I think your Cap Rockets will be elgible with picture proof for P1.
The Apollo 13 Rocket however falls into the P2 group (post-1969).
Any and all additional information that you can provide may allow you to
fly around or off the handle as you see appropriate.

[paul whittaker]

the public should not assume that the term plastic/crotch rockets ridden by squids is necessary a derogatory phrase, any more than Limey (Count me in, or as Marie calls me $10 Canadian), is derogatory. A favorite scene in a "Porridge" episode has a black guy placed in the cell with Fletcher after being in the hole for an extended period for trying to drown a screw in the cauldron of rice pudding. reason given for the attempt was, He called me a black jock bastard, (it seemed to me most Scots were named Jock), after Fletch reminded him that he was indeed black, with a very pronounced Glasgow accent, and he had no idea who his parents were, he came out with "Oh its not that, its the way he said it" Paul,

[commando]

Paul would you be so kind to translate the term "squids" to me as I am unfamilliar with it and am quite intrigued?
as for side cars...I agree with Dom, the should be looked at....often as they are fun!!!!
How about adding a new class of side car "50cc side car" we could call it "monkey bike mayhem"...think of the hilarity, a bunch of us fat old farts wringing the necks of some honda z50 minibikes with sidecars