P4 Vintage Challenge Series 2012

[racerdude413]

I hate to be the one to point this out and I have no vested interest in these events or classes but ... we seem to rely very heavily on the "spirit and intent" clause in paragraph 1c of the rule book. The general scheme of the rules is to set out a MAXIMUM model year for each class, not a MINIMUM model year. Within each period are a set of restrictions applicable to that period. The only restrictions on bumping that are in the rules is a ban on bumping to a higher displacement class within the period. Additionally, there are some references to equivalency of classes when bumping between periods (i.e. P3 to P4.) However, the fact remains, absent a very broad interpretation of "spirit and intent," there is no ban on bumping between any periods. It is the ability to fit within the rules of a specific class that defines a bike as a period bike, not the model year, and it is fully within the rules that a an earlier bike could also be classed as a later period bike. In fact, it might ONLY be classed as a later period bike if it has been built to a standard that meets those requirements and not the earlier period ones (for example, a 1967 model built with disc brakes would be in P2.) Anyway ... I'm just saying ...

Very good point Stephen... To enter any Challenge race you must enter a regular spring race. If you show up at the Quinte TT and enter your bike in P3H, you may not enter the P4 challenge (or you could not in 2010 anyway) but if you did enter your P3 bike only in P4F1 and the P4 challenge, then you "probably" would have been aloud to race...

As a P4 rider, i can assure you that i dont give a crap what bike enters the P4 challenge, in my opinion it should be called "the vintage challenge" and open to anyone that wants to get out there and prove they are up to the "challenge" ...

[Pat Nicholson]

2012 - P4 Challenge Series:
In response to Jim K’s enquiry re P3 H bikes racing in the P4 Challenge race at VRRA events in 2012 we thought it might be best to put this request forward to the P4 Challenge racers and see how they would feel about the addition of earlier machines in the challenge with them.
Since we eliminated the dedicated Challenge races for the other Periods to make room for the bumping changes, it looks to me like the P4 Challenge could be opened up for anyone who wants to enter, but I do believe that we should recognize the opinions of the racers who usually participate in this race.
I would also like to hear from the Challenge racers regarding which RACE weekends (3) they would enter so we can let Chris know which would suit our racers best.
Is there anyone out there who intends to run the Vintage Challenge at the RACE events?
Pat

[jim kots]

To enter any Challenge race you must enter a regular spring race. If you show up at the Quinte TT and enter your bike in P3H, you may not enter the P4 challenge (or you could not in 2010 anyway) but if you did enter your P3 bike only in P4F1 and the P4 challenge, then you "probably" would have been aloud to race

Not to side track too far but if you build a P3H bike with the intension of only racing in P4F1 it needs to be built to P3H specs entirely.

[gary holden]

P4VC for P4 bikes only was introduced to give all P4 bikes an extra race 'cause they had nowhere to bump to,and everyone else had at least one place to bump to.
With the advent of within period bumping P4 F3,2,and 1 now have 2,1 and 0 places to bump to,respectively,and everyone else had at least one, and many had lots.
If the VC is re-introduced without restriction,P4F3,2 and 1 will have 1 more place to race,,and so will everyone else.
So,to be fair,the VC should be for P4F1 bikes only.
P4F1 riders should be the ones who decide which other classes/periods can race in "their" race.
But if,because of their generosity,it is thrown wide open to all periods,why not call it "Vintage Open",to make it less confusing.

[brian-d #43]

So let's say, hypothetically speaking, that some slug (like that guy on bike # 43) decides that, because of how the weekend races are scheduled, rather than bump across within his period, he will sign his P1-250 up for the Vintage Challenge race. He's out there with P4-F1's? And this will be ok with the P4 riders? I hate to be a stick in the mud, but I STILL think a Vintage Challenge race should be limited to P4 bikes. After all, P3 bikes can bump up to P4 races as well as within their own period. Why not let the P4 boys have a race of their own?

My 2 cents (CDN),

Brian D. #43

[racerdude413]

So let's say, hypothetically speaking, that some slug (like that guy on bike # 43) decides that, because of how the weekend races are scheduled, rather than bump across within his period, he will sign his P1-250 up for the Vintage Challenge race. He's out there with P4-F1's? And this will be ok with the P4 riders? I hate to be a stick in the mud, but I STILL think a Vintage Challenge race should be limited to P4 bikes. After all, P3 bikes can bump up to P4 races as well as within their own period. Why not let the P4 boys have a race of their own?

My 2 cents (CDN),

Brian D. #43

I dont think you would do that, but personnaly i wouldnt care....

The point is: If a P3 rider or P2 rider was looking for more than 4 races weekends to do in 2012, and he decided he was going to do all vintage challenge races at RACE rounds, it would suck for him to be able to get points at those 3 races and not being able to enter the P4 challenge at VRRA events an get points there as well...

[gary holden]

Not to side track too far but if you build a P3H bike with the intension of only racing in P4F1 it needs to be built to P3H specs entirely.

Why?Wouldn't a P3H bike built to P3H specs entirely be ineligible to "enter" P4F1 because of the displacement limits in P4?
It would be allowed to "bump" into P4F1,and for that it would have to be P3H legal.
Nothing to stop someone from building a P3 "Frankenbike" that respects both P3 and P4 rules and "entering" P4F1,or any P4 class,for that matter.
"2b. Any machine may enter any class for which it meets the eligibility rules." - isn't that what this means?

[jim kots]

A P3H bike built to P3 specs can bump to P4F1 or enter as its primary class. If you enter as your primary class the bike can not be built with modifications considered P4, slicks, 5.0 or wider"rear rim, cartridge forks...

My guess is its the displacement, 1100cc 4 stroke or 750cc 2 stroke, both over the limit.

[Don Gosen]

To answer Chris's question, it would appear that the 3 RACE rounds that are friendliest to the VRRA schedule would be; Round 1, May4,5,6, Round 4; Aug. 3,4,5, and Round 6 - Sept. 21,22,23

In each case it would avoid racing back to back weekends. To ensure that the series matches up to VRRA it would seem that calling it the P4 Vintage Challenge would be most logical. Bumping would be allowed per usual VRRA guidelines. For this to be a 7 race series we would then need to run a P4 Challenge at all 4 VRRA rounds including Mosport.

A series sponsor would be a big help towards making this a reality, even if it was only to pick up the awards.

I like the idea because it gives us another chance to work with Chris, promote VRRA, and possibly attract additional P4 riders and members.

Don