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H1 Triple rig f/s

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H1 Triple rig f/s

Postby gord » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:01 am

thought this might be of interest,,right hand chair tho http://maine.craigslist.org/mcy/2086954031.html
life is a VIcious cycle
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Re: H1 Triple rig f/s

Postby Bob Coy » Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:09 am

I believe that that chassis is a DCM that was made a few years ago, early 2000 / 2001 by Dave Gilbert as part of a small batch of chassis he produced. I supplied all the bodywork for his project. It was being built by/for Bob Oliver who used to race sidecars back in the 70's. It was never finished and I don't believe it was ever intended to have the Kawasaki engine that someone has tried to fit now. The triple would not work with P1 or P2 in the USCRA or VRRA. It is a universal chassis however that several successfully fit the XS Yamaha in. All the glass work is old Fiderman design from 70's.
The other sidecar referenced in the next post was also Bob's and was being updated. There was a problem with the wheels as tires were not available for that size rim and there was a problem trying to adapt other wheels to that chassis.
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Re: H1 Triple rig f/s

Postby gord » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:47 pm

isn't there a P3 sidecar with 2 strokes up to 500cc? Be nice to see a little diversity.
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Re: H1 Triple rig f/s

Postby paul whittaker » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:34 pm

Hi Gord, yes the 500cc Suzuki Titan is in this class; Sam Stoney did very well on one. Bob did not mention there is also a H1 owned by Karl Smolenski which I ran against in the 60,s at Orange county Cal. Being a genuine period racer.......? If it ever gets refurbished. The P2 class is often referred to as the Twins class, since triples are generally excluded. Paul.
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Re: H1 Triple rig f/s

Postby Bob Coy » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:38 am

Paul is correct that Sam ran a 500 Titan motor in his sidecar. The USCRA however allows the Titan in it's P2 class as there is no P3 class in the USCRA. The whole issue of running engines with more and more cylinders is a sticky topic as the late 60's early 70's saw a major shift to the three and four cylinder engines with a progression to fatter smaller tires and rear exit chairs. This shift really changed the complexion of sidecar racing and took away much of the visually thrilling acrobatics that skinny tires and front exit chairs have. I fall back on the philosophy that I used when a couple of us wrote the vintage sidecar rules back in the very early 90's...That philosophy is that sidecar racing has to remain exciting and will never be mainstream as it to difficult for most racers to acquire, race, store, transport and maintain a sidecar outfit. There will always be a very limited supply of used outfits for sale as there just aren't and were not the numbers. Additionally, owners tend to tuck them away for either nostalgia reasons or harbor the thought that they will return to the track at some point.

By strictly limiting the classes to the twin cylinder engines and skinny tires, the technology of racing and construction becomes more accessible and there is closer more exciting competition. More importantly, the old rigs aren't obsoleted with more of them being tucked away in frustration as being obsolete. Yes the Kawasaki triple is period correct and then the Honda four becomes period correct, and then the fat tires become period correct, and then rear exit becomes period correct and then sidecar racing will undergo what happened to kill it in North America in the 70's and early 80's ...technology pushed the envelope and it became it's demise.
We currently see a parallel of that in vintage solo racing as the period eligibility time line increases. The older machines are parked in favor of the newer, expendable and cheap "press the start button and go" production street machines. It is a dilemma that all vintage racing wrestles with...where to draw the line and what the objectives of vintage racing are. Should it be just cheap racing. It is a difficult time for vintage racing as can be seen in the philosophical shift toward more modern easy bikes that pay the bills and fill the fields. For me, the golden days of vintage racing in North America are dying fast except at a very very few venues. P1 sidecars is a very weak class now but P2 sidecars is really holding it's own. In my opinion, a movement to P3 and newer will kill P2 if actively pursued and there will be no going back to a more interesting and exciting time for both participants and spectators. Just my 2 cents on a Tuesday morning rant but I am getting seriously vintage now and will ultimately be replaced by a newer updated vintage.
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Re: H1 Triple rig f/s

Postby thelittleguy » Tue Dec 14, 2010 7:51 pm

Very interesting thoughts Bob. I have never thought of class demise in that way before. But you have some good points to ponder with.Very interesting.
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Re: H1 Triple rig f/s

Postby Bob Coy » Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:11 pm

I stand corrected on the Craigs List DCM sidecar for sale. It is like I said a DCM chassis with my bodywork but it appears that is the ex-Sam Stoney outfit that was never completed. I'll have to check with Sam to see if the Oliver machine and his were one and the same.
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